posted 03-09-2006 01:08 PM            

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I do not know who 'Boston' is on the Anti site but he suggested that if an examiner acepted George's challenge and caught the counter measures - George would loose all rights to the anti site (He joked that Penn & Teller could moderate the challenge). George just counter offered. This is a copy of his post.

Boston,

I, too, am a big fan of Penn & Teller. I propose the following:

1) You and I write a joint letter to Penn & Teller proposing that they devote an episode of their television show Bullshit! to answering the question, "Who's full of shit? Polygraph critics who offer countermeasure strategies on-line or polygraph operators who say they can detect countermeasures?"

2) A test involving a statistically significant sampling of examinees will be set up. Some will employ countermeasures, some won't. Some will tell the truth, others won't. I will provide the countermeasure training.

3) If the polygraph examiner (you) succeeds in detecting countermeasures (detection = correct identification at better-than-chance levels of accuracy), AntiPolygraph.org will withdraw Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (the chapter on countermeasures) and advise all polygraph examinees not to employ countermeasures.

4) If, on the other hand, you fail to detect the countermeasures (as I am confident will be the case), you can still keep your polygraph license. It is of no value to AntiPolygraph.org. Your embarrassment and humiliation on national television will be reward enough.

What say you?

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posted 03-09-2006 01:27 PM            

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How do we know what ground truth is? That is, how would we know if a person actually used CMs or simply claimed to do so but didn't? If he has truthful people fake using CMs, they're not going to get "caught."

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posted 03-09-2006 02:44 PM            

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I agree. I just hope the wrong individual doesn't accept the new challenge. His little dog an pony show could cause discredit to our profession. Those of us that watch his site - know it would be a set-up but the public wouldn't.

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posted 03-09-2006 04:30 PM            

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Guys, it won't matter! No matter what george does and regardless of my or our ability, he will claim foul, somehow.

Not only will it be "well yeah, we used CM's then and at that moment, but what did the examinee specifically do? Oh! You don't know or can't tell the difference between a tongue bite and a mental arithmetic manuever? There you have it folks, they don't know squat, better than chance!!!"

Any of you wanna play that game? Have at it. I catch them daily, and do not feel a need to prove it to anyone, especially against a stacked and slanted deck... If I thought any display of CM detetcion would be fair, I would be the first in line to take his money, but it would never happen.

Best regards to all,

Jim

[This message has been edited by sackett (edited 03-09-2006).]

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posted 03-09-2006 04:46 PM            

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George wants only to draw his rant into a public pissing match.

I think we're better off not even having this conversatiom with him.

This kind of circus act does not count for empirical research.

The best plan is for us to maintain a healthy professional community, in which any fringe examiners are brought up to speed with current practices, modern equipment, good techniques and conservative judgement.

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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
--(Dr. Strangelove, 1964)

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posted 03-10-2006 05:42 AM            

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Look at the bright side though: the dummies who believe they can beat us show up on a regular basis. I credit George with sending us a lot of clients and a lot of confessions! Let him rant, and we'll collect the royalties!

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